CCW Safe Podcast – Episode 90: Constitutional Carry

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Welcome to the CCW Safe Podcast with Rob High and Phil Naman.

Rob High: Hi, I want to welcome everybody to the CCW Safe Podcast. I’m Rob High in Oklahoma City joined by Phillips Naman, my co-host. How are you, Phil?

Phillip Naman: Doing great, Rob. You’re in Oklahoma City today, but you’ve just got in from quite a few trips there, didn’t you?

Rob: Yes, I did. We’ve been on the road, hooked up pretty busy. Stan and I did a training course out in California four weeks ago. We followed that up with making [unintelligible 00:00:45] S12 close to the Nashville, Tennessee. Immediately turned around and went down to Houston for the NRA conference, their annual meeting. We just finished last week in New York City with the Secret Services Antiterrorism Summit. Really busy, but I am home for a bit and happy to be back. How about you? What’s going on?

Phillip: Well, same thing. We’re busy with the radio show, busy with the office, busy with life. Everybody’s busy these days, and we’re all looking at a world events and staying as busy as we can, I think is the key to that, right? The key to surviving that.

Rob High: For sure. Speaking of, Sunday, June 12th, State of Ohio comes on board as another State to offer constitutional carry and I’d like to talk about that a little bit with you today and explain what that is and the coverages that we’re able to offer for people that opt to exercise their rights in a constitutional carry State.

Speaker 3: In other news tonight, gun owners who don’t want to get a concealed carry permit no longer have to in Ohio. It’s a big change that Governor Mike DeWine just signed into law tonight. WLWT News 5 Steven Alberton breaks down the new law and what exactly all of this means to you. Hi, there.

Steven Alberton: Sure. The new rules are in effect in Ohio when it comes to carrying guns. Governor Mike DeWine put pen to paper today making Senate bill 215, law. This law now makes a concealed weapons permit optional for anyone legally allowed to carry a gun. Also, if approached by a police officer, they won’t have to promptly notify them that they are carrying a concealed weapon. They will only have to if asked.

Reaction was swift from both sides; law enforcement groups and Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America opposed the bill along with the Ohio Democratic Party, who said in part, “By signing this bill into law, Mike DeWine has sold out Ohioans and law enforcement officers to special interest groups and extremists in the legislature. This bill will make all Ohioans less safe.”

On the other side, the Buckeye Firearms Association says this new legislation falls in line with our Second Amendment rights saying, “Governor DeWine made a campaign promise to Buckeye Firearms Association and to Ohio’s four million gun owners that he would sign a constitutional carry bill if it was put on his desk and he has fulfilled his promise.” Now, in this bill, you can still apply for a concealed permit, which would then allow you to carry in other States that recognize out of State concealed carry. According to Buckeye Firearms, Ohio joins 21 other States with similar legislation, Steven Alberton WLWT News 5.

Rob: That’s something that–

Phillip: The most shocking thing about that story honestly, was a politician said he was going to do something and he did it. That should have been the news story, not so much everything else, but he actually made the promise and followed through on it. That was the most impressive part of that entire story.

Rob: Yes, for sure. For those of you that aren’t familiar with this, constitutional carry just basically means that it’s a permit-less State. You’re not required to go through their licensing process. You don’t have to go down and give your fingerprints and things like that. It’s something that has really been pressed as something that’s going to make the world a whole lot more dangerous. Thus far, that’s not played out anywhere. It’s people with a unrealistic fear of a firearm. We see these places that get affected and are soft targets when we post “No Firearms”. It makes school buildings soft targets. It makes–

Phillip: Federal buildings.

Rob: Yes, federal buildings. You can’t go into a club, you can’t go into other places carrying a firearm. One of the things I want to talk about is the fact that it’s very incumbent on you if you select to exercise this right in a constitutional carry State, to understand the laws locally where you are. As I mentioned, Ohio goes on board June 12th. Indiana comes in line July 1st and Alabama is already set to put it into law on January one of next year.

You have to know that as a constitutional carrier, if I’m carrying concealed, if I’m contacted by law enforcement, I need to make a notification to them immediately that I’m exercising my rights, I have a firearm, this is where it’s at and ask them how you would like to proceed. I never felt threatened by anybody that advised me ahead of time that they were carrying a gun. I always appreciated that now we have that mutual understanding, and if I was uncomfortable, I could remove the firearm or whatever else.

Phillip: There was an interesting announcement that was on that news clip. They said that under this law, you are not required to tell law enforcement that you were carrying a firearm. I just think my own personal best practice is I would rather– you’re stopped for a traffic accident or something like that, I’d just say, listen, I am carrying. It’s so-and-so on my body, as opposed to him seeing your profile or something like that or be surprised, I think surprising a police officer unless it’s like a birthday party is probably not a really good idea.

I would advise, hey, you’re above the law– Not you’re above the law. You’re not breaking the law. You’re a good guy or a girl, let’s just say, “Hey, it’s over here.” I understand right to privacy, but I don’t want somebody to accidentally get hurt because of a misunderstanding that you just didn’t want to tell them you were carrying appendix-wise and he asked for your car keys and you put your hand in your pocket and just bad things happen. You’re the investigator, wouldn’t you advise coming up front in saying, “Folks, this is a better practice”?

Rob: It would be my choice if I had one. I know anytime I’m stopped on traffic or have any other contact with law enforcement, if I have a firearm on me, that’s the first thing I let them know. There’s other States, that’s what I was talking about. It’s your responsibility to know the laws where you live. Texas, for instance, has made it to where it is far more open for a law enforcement officer to come up and I don’t even need reason to make contact. I see that you’re carrying a firearm and I can immediately come up and start asking you about it.

Ohio has gone exactly the opposite direction with that. You have to understand what different States are as far as your obligation to leave someplace if you’re asked to leave and what their requirements are as far as posting or things like that that as a business owner I have that right to say, “I don’t want people in my business”. If it’s a State that has a law in place that you’re going to be arrested if you’re breaking their law as far as your presence in a prohibited area with a firearm, there’s other places that really it’s not anything more than they just have to come up and ask you to leave and if you don’t, you can be arrested for trespassing.

There are other prohibitions, anytime you’re going to talk about carrying a firearm, you have to be legally permitted to own a firearm. You can’t be a prohibited person.

Phillip: I think that’s a really big, important thing and I know in your coverage, you go over that too is– and I think that’s a great advantage [inaudible 00:10:17] Texas law over the Ohio, if I could be so bold as to pick them apart. If you were an officer and you knew that somebody was nefarious and you saw them carrying outside the waistband or something of that nature, but you couldn’t under the law contact him because you saw the gun, I think that would be a large disservice to law enforcement in general.

If it’s a prohibited person and I am super pro Second Amendment, except for prohibited persons. I think that violent felons should not have firearms. I’m sorry, that’s my personal preference. It’s not CCW Safe’s thing, but you can take it up with me. I just think that if they’re a violent felon, I really don’t want them carrying guns all over the place. They seem to have a super small minority of people that commit the super majority of crimes and I’d rather not have them on the streets to be honest with you.

Rob: Those are the guys that are carrying anyway.

Phillip: Why restrict law enforcement from being able to correct that situation?

Rob: Other things are, depending on the State, again, if I’ve been convicted of an assault that results in serious bodily injury, if I’ve been convicted of aggravated assault, if I have a restraining order against me, if there’s a conviction for a domestic assault and battery, all of those are things that go into place that prevent me from legal ownership of a firearm. You have to understand that you’re not breaking the law to try to exercise this right. It’s no longer your right once you’ve been arrested and convicted of those types of crimes.

One of the things that we talk about all the time is having a means to go about and figure out what the laws are in your area. Gary and I get calls all the time asking for advice and we can’t give legal advice. We can tell you what things are in Oklahoma, we can talk about how I would have wanted something to be handled in a law enforcement capacity when I was active duty we can go into–

Phillip: We can talk about the 537 pages of firearms laws for California.

Rob: Yes, that’s absolutely amazing. It’s your responsibility as a carrier and a gun owner in that State to have a working knowledge of what those things are. State by State by State, we’ve got restrictions on magazine capacity or whether or not you can have a red dot on your gun or a laser or anything else. Those are things that are incumbent, like I said earlier, on you to know, and even as a really red State like Oklahoma, where we have really generous handgun laws and I can travel from point A to point B going cross-country and I have to know what the laws are in those States that I’m traveling through.

Justin: Hi guys, this is Justin, I’m Content Manager Podcast Producer. I just wanted to jump in and reiterate a little what Rob said there is, we always get questions about people call us want to know what can I do where I’m at? Phillip said it, how many 500-some pages just in California and I imagine if you go to different counties and different cities, those laws even change. The biggest thing that we tell people or I tell people is, you have to really know what the laws are where you’re at because no matter what expert you ask, if they don’t live where you live and actually know what the laws really are because they always change, you’re setting yourself up for failure there.

It’s incumbent that’s part of the response. I look at it as part of the responsibility, if you’re going to carry a gun and you want to stay legal and you should, then you just got to put in the time to figure out where you live, what are the laws because you drive a hundred miles anyway and they could rarely easily change, especially depending on what State you live in. I just wanted to jump in on that.

Phillip: Let’s say that I’m going on a hunting trip. I’m leaving from Southern California taking the 15, I’m heading out to Wyoming or Colorado, right? California, I’ve got my CCW, life is good. I cross over in Primm, Nevada and I’m in Cook county, Nevada. I can’t carry. All of a sudden, if I just come across that State line and I get pulled over with one of those 700 or 800 CHPs they have– Nevada highway patrols, they have waiting for you, Hey, your life can materially change with that situation because you just crossed over and you crossed over doing 75 miles an hour so what are you going to do?

You’re going to manipulate your gun, put your gun lock. There’s issues that that causes and knowing that ahead of time. Las Vegas does not allow. They’re very un-CCW friendly if you’re not from there and they’ve had issues. Again, just like you said, and then of course, when you leave that county, you hit Mesquite or you go back into Utah, that’s not an issue. Colorado’s not an issue, Wyoming, not an issue. Wyoming’s really not an issue, but there’s that one zone in there.

Rex Defense, he comes out and does some classes with us and he hates it because he goes, “Look, I feel naked coming to California because I don’t know what law I’m going to step on doing one thing.” It’s important to know where you’re going and the transit corridors you’re going through.

Justin: I lived in Vegas for about [crosstalk]. It’s a great– actually it’s an amazing place for guns and shooting.

Phillip: Yes, it is.

Justin: There’s a tremendous amount of good ranges but I used to travel to California a few times a year to do events and same way, man, I hated it. I’d take a J-Frame or a revolver or something to keep in the hotel because I didn’t even want a risk taking anything with a magazine.

Phillip: If you don’t know Justin, if you haven’t met him, he’s about 6 foot 14, giant of a man and to see him with a J-Frame, I would actually pay money for that. His hand’s like a loading pallet. Yes, I’d like to see him run a J-Frame.

Justin: Yes, that’s something I used to– it always blew my mind and you mentioned it there as well was, I can be 100% legal on one side of the line, an arbitrary line and what I walked around with every day in Las Vegas for 10 years, as soon as you cross that line, you’re a felon and your life changes instantly. We can sit here and talk about how stupid that is and how crazy, but still–

Phillip: It’s a reality to deal with.

Justin: that’s what we live with. Knowing the law goes back to responsibility.

Phillip: There’s been some guys in California that we’ve talked to and obviously just in conversations, they’ve just said, well the Second Amendment is my carry permit. It’s like, well, I agree, but you’re going to have an issue. It’s true, that is your carry permit, I’m in a 100% agreement, but in today’s laws, this is what’s going to cost you if you want to push that. Just get your permit.

Justin: When I moved to Oklahoma, which is three or four years ago it was right as they had passed constitutional carry and I still don’t have an Oklahoma permit. I need to get one. I’ve been meaning to get one just because it makes life easier when I go to Texas or somewhere else. Constitutional carry is awesome. Personally, I don’t think you’re going to see a whole lot of people that weren’t caring before constitutional carry start caring after, there’ll be some.

I think what constitutional carry does, a lot of places is a lot of people that were carrying before constitutional carry, now they just don’t have to worry so much. For whatever reason somebody chooses not to get a permit but you mentioned that’s always been one of the things like I remember back in Florida when they first did concealed carry permits, I think it was in the ’80s. I remember growing up– I grew up in Ohio, grew up in Cincinnati and the only way I remember back then you could carry was if you were some LE or you were able to get some special permit if you dealt in large amounts of cash, you were a delivery guy, you made deposits at night from a business. You had to justify it. it wasn’t shell issue and that was the outlook.

Phillip: People lost their mind when Florida came out and started issuing CCWs.

Justin: Yes, they said there was going to be blood in the streets and all this other stuff and what happened? That didn’t happen but their crime rate dropped.

Phillip: That was the cocaine wars and all that stuff in the ’80s. Hey, Rob, maybe we should just go through, we’re throwing out the term constitutional carry. What exactly does that mean? There’s my understanding, your understanding but I think the official is basically that you’re able to carry a firearm for self-defense if you are a legally a non-prohibitive person, I should say– Carry a firearm for self-defense in legal areas without having to go through a CCW and background check. Is that pretty much clean on that?

Rob: It’s permit-less. It’s releasing me of the responsibilities of having to go through all those things.

Phillip: As you said earlier, each State or each county can actually have their own restrictions on where you can carry. For instance, in most States, if you were at a church service, you could carry your firearm. In California, if your church has a school, you can’t. Just ridiculous things like that. You just need to understand your local– anyway.

Rob: Yes, you’re absolutely correct. We’re going to take a quick break here. Get a little word from our friend Don West and when we come back, I’d like to discuss what we’ve done as far as the constitutional carry plans and some of the coverages we can offer for you guys. We will be right back. Thank you.

Don West: Hi, I’m Don West National Trial Counsel for CCW Safe and a board certified criminal trial lawyer. The financial cost of defending a self-defense case involving serious injury or death may surprise you. I know this firsthand from personal experience. Attorney’s fees alone can be several hundred thousand dollars but that’s not all, you need money and plenty of it for private investigators, expert witnesses and, of course, to pay the bail bond company so you can get out of jail.

All this could easily add up to $400,000 or $500,000 or more especially if it’s a high profile case. Without the money you need to put on your best defense, you’re at a terrible disadvantage to an aggressive prosecutor and consequently, you have a greater risk of being wrongfully convicted. That’s why CCW Safe doesn’t put limits on attorney’s fees or trial expenses like most other plans do. When comparing companies, take a minute, read the fine print, you can be confident that with CCW Safe, the money will be there when you need it.

Rob: Okay, welcome back. As I was talking before the break, we wanted to get into the meat and potatoes of what we can offer as coverage for you if you’re choosing to exercise your right in a constitutional carry State and do this without a permit. This is something that was a bare bones thing when we first started it and we have really really added a lot of meat and potatoes to it here recently and almost brought it up on par with all of our permit plans.

The cost is $299 a year for our constitutional carry plan that can be done on an annual payment or you can break that up and do $27 a month. The benefits of this plan are amazing. Like Don was saying in the break there, the cost of a self-defense is exorbitant. There are so many things that keep coming at you and if you’ve never thought about all it’s going to entail, the things that are going to be necessary for you, it’s just like I’ve got an attorney and I think that’s enough.

Then suddenly it’s like he needs an investigator and he needs to bring in an expert and then we’ve got court costs and all of a sudden, it’s going to go in front of a judge or a jury and you got the jury thing being done and now we need a jury consultant. We need to have all these things in place to give us the strongest group for your defense. With CCW Safe, all of those things are covered up-front. We don’t do this as a reimbursement program where you do all of the funding of your case up-front and then later we give you a check for everything you’ve spent. We cover those costs.

Phillip: Couple things on this. It’s a single person plan so it’s good for you. If you want to have your spouse, it’s an add-on. You have to live in a State where constitutional carry is the law to apply for it, then it will cover you in the other States as you travel. That’s an important feature on that. You’ve got all the other acts– it’s non-transferable. This is your plan. You can use it in conjunction with your carry plan also if you’re in another State, they can do that. Again, you have to be able to legally own a firearm.

It covers you in areas that are legal to carry a firearm so this is not a I can carry my gun to the airport plan. There’s no such thing. If you do something silly like that, then you have to clean that up but don’t do that. This is the story of the day. You have to carry your firearm where it’s legal. You have to be in a State that allows constitutional carry. It’s good for you. You can add other people on, it’s got a basic level of service like a $250,000 bond. You can move that up to a million dollars. There’s a lot of add-ons. There’s the basic feature and then you can really enhance this coverage to make it more like your regular defender plans and family plans going forward.

Rob: As I discussed with you earlier, when we initially came out with this, it only covered you in your home State. Now we’ve increased that to any other States that also have constitutional carry and have a reciprocity with the State that you live in. If I was constitutional carry in Oklahoma and Texas also has constitutional carry and they recognize Oklahoma as well, I would be covered in Texas as well when I’m on the road.

Phillip: Are there States– and I’m asking this out of my ignorance. Under constitutional carry, are there States that offer constitutional carry that don’t recognize other States constitutional carry? I know not every State has reciprocity for CCWs but do they have that on that level?

Justin: The way it’s usually worded is basically resident, non-resident. If you are not a resident of the State, some places may not recognize concealed carry. Whereas, if you are a resident, you can permit-less carry other places. Basically, if you’re illegal to own the gun no matter where you live, it goes back to that local pile of laws to where you got to know where you’re at.

Rob: A good resource for you guys also is concealedcarry.com Jacob Paulsen and his group are really good friends of ours, great affiliate. They do a pretty continuous upgrading of gun laws and maps and things like that and they have resources available just at the click of a mouse to bring up where I can do certain things. That’s usually the first place I go to if I’m traveling and I’m going to look up and and say what I have to do when I cross over into Missouri. Is there anything differently? Is there a magazine restriction? I got to know those things and there’s really no sense in us trying to reinvent the wheel. Jacob’s guys are amazing and they usually stay really really pretty up to date. His stuff is really current.

Justin: Something I’d like to bring up– sorry, Phil– about the constitutional carry thing, and, Phil, you mentioned it before we came on that you’re going to be doing some training here soon. I don’t know how we reach the new people that will come in that will decide to start carrying a gun because they don’t have to go through the permit process. I just wanted to get you guys to talk a little bit about how vital even just basic training is for somebody that may not have carried a gun much before or never carried a gun before.

Basic training on how to draw the gun, how to carry the gun safely, how to– all that stuff. Because for guys who’ve done it a long time like all three of us, that stuff’s so basic that you just take it for granted. There’s a lot of people out there that’s just you don’t know what you don’t know, and when you’re new to something, it’s vital to understand the fundamentals and the basics. If you guys could talk about like why you think that’s important or what to do about it?

Rob: It’s huge. If I’m going to open carry it, that is a little simpler, a little easier for me. Anything I do, I always need to understand and operate and follow the four basic safety rules of a firearm. You start adding a holster system into it, I need to understand that I need a good solid belt. I need a good safe holster. What is my mission? What am I really trying to accomplish here? For years, I carried as a cop and my stuff had certain things built into it, retention systems and lights and other things.

As a citizen and just a concealed carrier, I really don’t need all that stuff. I want something that’s comfortable and safe and secure and something I can access easily. If I’m carrying concealed, I need to learn how to clear my garment as one hand’s moving my shirt while the other hand is establishing a grip on my firearm. I need to be able to do that safely without coming into contact with the trigger. I want to make sure that I don’t catch it on clothing.

Philip: Actually re-holstering.

Rob: Yes, absolutely. I want to make sure that I’m not muzzling myself. I don’t want to point a gun at myself. Things happen.

Philip: Last night at dinner, I was introduced to somebody– we’re out here in the Prescott office today. He was carrying a knife on his side, but he was carrying it horizontal. It was a fixed blade. He was carrying horizontal handle towards the front just off of his left hip or his right hip. Which it was a fixed blade and it was maybe a four-inch blade, but it was one of those snug-fit sheaths where you just push it in and it’s held tight. There wasn’t any restraining on it.

As I shook his hand, I looked down and I realized he has lost– obviously I’m not a bad guy. This guy lost all control of his firearm when he shook my hand because my left hand is right– not his firearm his knife. The same thing happens if you open carry. You have to be aware of how it’s on your hip, what your concealment is, what your control of it is. Like Safariland, we’ve talked about them before they have restraints. They have a thumb snap or not a snapper or pressure or a grip release.

Something of that nature that controls it. Because this guy he no idea how dangerously he was carrying his own knife. The same thing has to go through your mind when you’re carrying open carry. We’ve talked about this before, you’re walking through the grocery store and there’s a bad guy comes up behind you, grabs a can of baked beans, and smacks you across the back of the head because you weren’t aware and you were carrying a big old 1911 on your side with a flap holster, you’re putting yourself at an issue.

You really have to up your game, your responsibility, training your mindset, your awareness. We had Mickey Schuch on a couple of times and his whole focus was your mindset. What’s your objective? What are you doing? If your objective is to get home safely to your family and your loved ones, then getting home safely means being not 100% paranoid, but being aware of where you put yourself and how you put yourself in different positions.

Rob: Certainly. Justin mentioned it earlier, the responsibility of carrying a firearm.

Philip: All rights come with responsibilities, right?

Rob: Absolutely.

Phillip: All rights come with responsibilities. Unlike somebody in Washington said that your rights aren’t absolute. We have the right to vote. Oh, wait, that’s not absolute.

Justin: I wanted to bring up one thing. You guys were talking about holsters. Again, going back to newer people is everything now is appendix carry and that’s a relatively recent shift I’d say in the last– at least in popular media and online stuff maybe four or five years. Appendix carry is as old as time, but as far as getting more popular now and that’s something it goes back to safety as far as.

Because I’ve seen more incidents with concealed carriers either shooting themselves or having a negligent discharge in the holstering process. One of the biggest things is every class I’ve been to and you guys will vouch for this, there’s always that guy on the line who thinks it’s a race to get the gun back in the holster. It’s just dangerous. There’s really no other word.

Philip: His name’s usually hop along because he’s got a limp after a while for some strange reason. The appendix carry is great. We all come in different shapes and sizes. Some people are very slim and small, and so trying to hide a Glock 34 on their frame is really not going to work out real well. Those of us who ate their vegetables growing up [laughs] and have girth to play with, you can hide things on them. The other part on appendix carry, I carry appendix carry. Every time I’m just dry firing or whatever, I always have to take my time practicing.

I’ve been amazed how many times just in the garage doing this that the t-shirt or something does get involved in re-holstering. If you have some girth down there, then you may have to physically move yourself so you don’t have that issue. Clothing very quickly just with friction on re-holstering process can slide between the gun and the holster. You guys are all nodding. You’ve obviously seen this too. You have to be critical because just a little knot of clothing pressed against a trigger as you’re pushing it into the holster could give you a heck of a surprise and lose some flesh.

Justin: One other thing is in colder weather, if you’re wearing a windbreaker or a jacket, they have zippered pockets. Those little zipper pulls if they’re down, I’ve seen those cause some issues. My whole point with bringing that up is just the fact that however somebody chooses to carry, it makes no difference to me. You’re the guy that’s carrying a gun. It’s just that basic thing of gun handling, basic fundamental gun handling that people that are going to walk around that aren’t used to carrying a gun all the time. I think that’s a big deal.

The way that I was taught, the way that I learned is exactly what Phil was talking about doing in the garage. The way, in my opinion, you get better handling a gun as you handle the gun and dry fire, dry practice. Specifically don’t be quick to get that gun back in the holster. Take your time. Personally, when I’m working open stuff from just a belt rig, I’m not as specific about it, but whenever I’m carrying inside the waistband when I re-holster I look at that holster.

Rob: Absolutely.

Justin: I look at it. I make sure it’s clear. I make sure my finger’s clear and off the trigger and there’s nothing–

Philip: Tilt it away.

Justin: Yes. I’m paranoid about that.

Rob: You should be. It is what I talk about as far as knowing your mission. If I’m a cop and it might be a time to go hands-on, but I can’t really divert my attention and my focus, I need to know how to locate and just holster. I’m not clearing garments. I’m not having to move things out of the way to get to a holster. Even at that, it still takes time and repetition to know where that holster is and know that I can keep an eye on you and I can still get clean and now we can go hands on, but as a concealed carrier, I don’t have that same mission. I don’t have that same responsibility.

If it’s only practice, that’s when I build in those good habits, it is the same every single time. Just like Justin’s saying, I went for decades knowing where my holster was, now I’ve gone to the concealed carry world and I’m just like him. I physically look and watch that gun into the holster, safely. That way, I can tell if I got something that’s going to snag and hang up. I clear that garment. I get things out of the way, but it’s because I’ve built in [crosstalk]

Phillip: The other part on that, Rob, I think you’re making a good point and I’m glad you brought it up. If you have to use your firearm in defense of your life or the life of someone else’s, if the person has been hit and they’re down on the ground, there is no reason for you as a civilian to try and zip-tie him or anything else. You don’t need to go down there. Your responsibilities are to call in for first aid, and to secure the area for your safety.

That might mean hanging onto that piece until the police officers come or you’re telling them on 911, “Hey, I’ve got a red shirt on. I do have my firearm. I’m the guy still-” here anyway, “-there’s a situation here,” but you should not, in my personal opinion, try and re-holster and put the guy in an arm bar waiting for the cops to show up there.

Rob: Yes, absolutely. One of the things I want to point out and just touch on, we’re talking about these things and continuing to handle and operate and do the things to be safe. The fact that I can do concealed or open carry and I can do it without a permit does not mean that I should just dive headlong into this. It’s something that requires a commitment and it requires training, no matter what else- I don’t have to go down and do a test or take a class or show a level of proficiency to the State or pay a licensing fee to carry. I can do it for free.

Phillip: Take that money you’re saving, and put it into training.

Rob: Yes. There is a responsibility. Justin’s run tens of thousands of rounds and I’ve carried a gun for decades. I’ve been to three courses this year, it’s something that’s really vital that we plug in and we stay sharp and we continue to learn and improve our skills. It only makes us safer. It makes us more responsible. It’s just a really important piece of this puzzle. The actual purchase of a gun is the least part of the whole thing. Embracing the responsibilities that come with carrying that thing are enormous, and they need to be treated with great respect.

Phillip: All aight. Let’s just recap the constitutional carry plan overview here. What this gives you, why you actually need it, folks. If you have this program, you’ve got access to our 24-hour emergency hotline in which somebody like Don West actually answers the phone. That’s the most important thing. Onsite, critical response team, which is Rob High and Gary Eastridge. You get vetting on attorneys. If you want to use your own attorney, they’ll vet them, they’ll tell you if they think it’s a great idea or not.

No cap on attorney fees, and it’s covered upfront. This is not a reimbursement. They cover you upfront, no cap on investigation fees. This is where the cases usually turn in how well they do investigations and expert witnesses. There’s also no cap on expert witness fees, all criminal and civil trial costs covered upfront again. Civil trial costs covered, even if you’re found guilty in a criminal trial.

Firearm replacement, up to $250 a day loss of wages while you’re at trial and 10 licensed professional counseling services, and a few other things on top of that. Basically, if you have to use your firearm in defense of your life, this is going to help you secure your financial future on the other side of it. You’ve defended your life but why? Because some [unintelligible 00:45:15], no offense to the people in [unintelligible 00:45:17].

Some [unintelligible 00:45:18] put you in that position, you are forced to defend yourself, and then you have somebody like Chesa Boudine or George Gascón, these DAS that are really out there against the Second Amendment. You’re not going to give them the opportunity to hang you out to dry. You have CCW Safe on your side, and that’s the most important thing.

Rob: Justin, you got any parting thoughts as we close out today?

Justin: Yes. Just congratulations to all the people in Ohio. The institutional carry takes effect on the 12th, I believe. On that day, they’ll be available. Our plan, everyone in Ohio for the constitutional carry plan will be available to them. Hope they take advantage of it. We’re seeing it more and more across other States and hopefully that’s a trend that continues, because I think it’s important.

Rob: I do too.

Justin: That’s all I got.

Rob: Yes. Phil.

Phillip: All right, guys. Thank you. God bless. I’m going to head out with Fieldcraft Survival this weekend and do my training, so they can yell at me and correct all my bad habits and we’ll be moving forward.

Rob: Awesome. Safe travels, buddy. Have fun. I want to thank everybody for joining us today. Tune in again next week. We appreciate everybody. We appreciate your questions, comments, suggestions and you can always reach me direct at rob@ccwsafe.com. Thank you, guys. We’ll see you next time.

Phillip: God bless.