CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 75: Giving Guns as Gifts

Video version of the podcast:

Transcript:

Rob High: Hello and welcome back to the CCW Safe podcast. I’m Rob High joined by Phillip Naman. How are you doing, Phil?

Phillip Naman: I’m doing great. How about yourself?

Rob: I’m doing wonderful, sir. We are charging into the holidays here. This actual broadcast will release just before Christmas. With that in mind, I thought maybe we could talk about the ins and outs and possible pitfalls maybe, legal troubles if I was going to gift a firearm to somebody. It varies so drastically, depending on where you’re at in the country. Your home state is, without question, the very toughest, but everybody’s got the do’s and don’ts and how to go about it legally. Federally, there’s nothing on the books that says that prohibits it, but at the same time–

Phillip: There are some requirements though?

Rob: Absolutely. The one thing that is nationwide is if I was going to buy you a pistol and I’m going to gift it to you, that has to go through an FFL. I need to have a dealer here in Oklahoma that can send it to a dealer there in California and still have to do the ATF Form 4473 and they’ll do the quick background and do that thing. Any kind of gifted firearm that’s going to go from one state to another has that requirement on it.

Phillip: I think if you’re just mailing a firearm, unless it’s going straight back to the manufacturer for warranty, I can’t ship you of firearms like, “Hey, I bought this new shotgun. I really like it. I want you to try it for a couple of weeks this hunting season and let me know what you think.” I can’t ship that to you, right? There’s restrictions just on shipping that are federal that we have to be aware of. I do believe you could ship to a warranty house or a gunsmith, but they have to have an FFL for that on their end. Otherwise, you can’t just throw something in the mail and call it good.

Rob: I know several guys that I worked with at the police department that are firearms dealers or gun builders. They do custom work or stuff for competition guns and things like that. Those guys have all got their FFL, so I’ve got access to several people that I can utilize for that purpose. Even if you don’t, just your local gun store is somebody that you can utilize for those purposes.

Phillip: Let’s just say that I wanted to because I’ve done this before. I’ve gifted firearms here in California. One was for a friend of mine. He was my CPA. He wanted a pistol. I found it. As a gift, I bought it for him. Now, the way that worked is I paid the store for that firearm, but I didn’t register it in my name. If I did, I would have had to register it in my name for 10 days and then do a private party transfer and he waits 10 days. I paid the store for it. On the registration side, it comes down as he has to register it in his name.

I never took possession of the firearm. I just covered his expenses on that. On his 4473 form, there’s a little line that says, am I the legal purchaser of it? He was. It was for him as a gift. He registered it in his name. He has to check that box. Now, that box is there to stop the straw man purchases or it’s usually straw lady purchases. It’s usually some not-so-nice guy who can’t own a firearm, talks his girlfriend into buying one for him. You might have seen that of time or two in law enforcement maybe?

Rob: We work the gun shows all the time when the unit I was in was under the umbrella of special investigations or criminal invest– I’m sorry, criminal intelligence. Most of the guys in that unit were pretty aware of our local problem guys. It’d be nothing for us to do surveillance in a parking lot and go, “Hey, there’s Phil Naman. Phil’s got a felony,” and then all of a sudden–

Phillip: Just one? Come on. Make me a career criminal if you’re going to slander me like that.

Rob: You have somebody in the car with you and they give you the money. You go in and make the purchase for them and that is a straw man purchase. A true gift is a gift. There are other things–

Phillip: Because it ends up in the registered person’s name?

Rob: Yes.

Phillip: Not the other way around that they register to me and hand it off, that’s–

Rob: It’s the straw man purchase in a resale situation as well. Those are some of the loopholes, [clears throat] excuse me, that people talk about in gun shows is I’ve got a gun I want to sell. I walk into the gun show and, all of a sudden, you and I cross paths and you’re like, “Well, I’ll buy that gun from you.” There’s no detail of any interaction or sale.

Phillip: That could happen in a back alley or in the back of a bar or someplace else, right? It doesn’t have to be a gun show. That’s just time and opportunity. Somebody’s selling a gun, somebody’s buying it, and they’re doing it outside of the legal channels.

Rob: Correct. There’s a lot of states that there’s no requirement to register a firearm. Oklahoma doesn’t have a registry. Florida doesn’t. There are several gun-friendly states in the country that don’t have that requirement. There are several that do. Whatever the requirement is in your state is something you need to adhere to to stay on the right side of the law and not get yourself or person that you’re gifting out of trouble. There are other things to think about with that. Number one is if I give a firearm to somebody that’s prohibited, that is a federal felony.

Phillip: Just giving it to him.

Rob: Just giving it to him.

Phillip: They haven’t used it for anything nefarious yet.

Rob: You’ve just gifted it to them. There’s some work that needs to be done on our end as well as the gift giver. There’s all kinds of things in the legalese written state by state, but it can’t be a convicted felon. They can’t have mental health issues. That depends on the issue. Obviously, you’re going to have people that have depression or anxiety or things like that that are well-treated medically. They’re under a physician’s care, those kinds of things. Specifically, some of the laws around the country specifically talk about a person that’s not a lunatic or a person that is of unsound mind.

Phillip: I think on the 4473, some of the questions are– I don’t know. I go by them kind of fast, but some of those questions, I think, are, have you ever been dishonorably discharged? I think that question’s on there. Are you legally in the United States of America? Those are some of the other questions on there. Have you been adjudicated mentally ill? Are you on drugs? Are you on marijuana? I think in California– well, they used to have that medical card for– that’s legal now for marijuana. I think that if you had a medical card, they would actually deny your purchase. I think that happened.

Rob: At least, federally, it would still-

Phillip: It should, yes.

Rob: -make that purchase illegal because it’s still a federal crime.

Phillip: Unless you’re Hunter Biden.

Rob: [laughs] That’s somebody else’s problem to deal with. One of the things that I would be concerned with and most states had enacted things that would cover this, if you’ve got somebody that has a conviction for a domestic violence assault, that prohibits them.

Phillip: Meaning a non-felony?

Rob: Even a non-felony, yes, because those are typically crimes of passion. They’re a quick flip-the-switch thing. So often, your victims in those cases do not leave. I couldn’t tell you how many cases I worked where you’re pleading with somebody, “Don’t go back.” It’ll never be easier than it was this time. It’s always going to get worse and it always does. Rarely do you ever see somebody go and get help and come out the other side of that okay. I’m talking about the abuser or the victim.

Phillip: All the way around, yes.

Rob: Both sides of that, they’re horrible. You have to understand that most states can’t legally let a person, a minor, own a handgun. There’s all kinds of restrictions on those. One of the things I do when I start looking at gun law stuff is go straight to ATF’s website. It’s www.atf.gov. You can go state by state.

Phillip: What did you find?

[laughter]

Rob: I found that your state is– I don’t know how you could ever figure out what is legal and not legal because it breaks it down. You got federal laws and you got your state laws that apply. The state laws in California, there’s 147 pages just listing the laws. It doesn’t give every single thing about each individual one. Then that breaks down even further to different municipalities enacting their own stricter laws. You’ve got 147 pages for state laws and then there are 196 for the municipalities that are alphabetically A through L, and then M through Z has another 251 pages. The legislative stuff in California, it is just unbelievable.

Phillip: Those pages are the titles. Those are not the descriptions of the bills-

Rob: Correct.

Phillip: -or the laws or a small snippet, but it’s not– Prop 63, which, I think, by itself was a thousand pages.

Rob: You get into the argument again about, “We need more gun laws.” We’ve got gun laws. We’ve absolutely got gun laws. That biggest deal is, why don’t we enforce them? That’s a whole other topic.

Phillip: I know we’ve talked about this before. I think when it comes to gun crime violence, violent gun crime, which you have property, you have injury, then you have homicide. There’s three different levels in my world of gun crime violence. I just think that if you use a firearm in the commission of a property crime, you should get 10 to 20 years. You bring a gun into a liquor store. I don’t care if it wasn’t successful.

Well, he only stole $10. It doesn’t matter. He put somebody’s life at risk. 10 to 20 years, right? I do believe in mandatory sentencing for violent crimes. I do consider armed robbery a violent crime. If you hurt somebody, rape– well, rape’s different, but if you hurt somebody, and I’ll explain that before somebody jumps on the– If you hurt somebody, you shot them in a leg, shot them in the arm, something like that, life imprisonment, okay?

If you kill somebody with a firearm in the commission of a crime, then I believe in the death penalty and I believe that includes rape. Yes, I do believe that rapists should get the death penalty because you have destroyed that person’s life, whether they live through it or not. I’d be a great judge. I really think so. It’s easy to say, “One, two, three, go. Next. Okay, we’re going to break for lunch.”

Rob: That’s one of those things Gary and I have talked about. Gary Eastridge is our critical response team manager. He’s been a homicide investigator for years and years and years. He always talked about the fact that the scene, the blood, the gore, all that was something that he could deal with because nobody was suffering anymore. He had far greater issues if he came up on something where you had this huge wound and you’re alive and suffering because there’s that empathic response and just, “Oh, my gosh.”

There’s nothing you can do really in most cases. Then he would talk about he couldn’t have worked sex crimes. I worked sex crimes for almost five years. The volume of cases we had was just unbelievable. That’s always been my take on that as well, is the severity of the penalty for something like that because your victim is a victim forever. That’s not anything that they ever just wash off and go, “Okay, I’m all better now.” They live with that forever. It’s something I really do. I believe there should be really harsh sentences for that. Back to the gifting of firearm.

Phillip: Oh yes, we had a purpose today. Sorry. [laughs]

Rob: My first firearm I received had been a shotgun that was one of my uncles. My grandfather gave it to me when I was a boy, teaching me gun safety and teaching me how to shoot, things like that. He taught me how to hunt. That’s one thing. That’s not a pistol, but learning from a mature adult and teaching kids how to safely navigate their way around firearms and things like that.

I think it’s really, really important. If you’ve got kids in the home, I don’t think that should ever be something that should be an absolute forbidden– My deal with my children when they were small was, and would be to this day, that my kids don’t care one way or the other. If you ever want to see a firearm, all you got to do is tell me. We’ll get it out. We’ll look at it. We’ll talk about it.

I can explain everything about it. If you ask any kid that’s ever been around me, they will always tell you that the first thing is absolutely every single firearm is treated like a loaded firearm. Depending on the person you’re gifting to depends on the things that you need to think about. Obviously, I knew nothing as a child about a shotgun. My grandfather did. I started out very, very basic before moving up.

I am really concerned a lot of times about somebody buying something. It’d be one thing if you and I had discussed something and you were like, “Man, I really, really like this gun. I’ve shot it. I think this and you get that.” That’s one thing. There are so many factors that go into firearm selection. I would never ever just buy a firearm, just walking in cold without ever having had my hands on it and having the opportunity to shoot it and understand that gun.

Because sometimes you think that, “Man, that’s a cool gun,” until you actually get on the line with it, then it’s like, “Yes, I don’t like that.” The trigger is not right or the recoil is not as manageable as you had hoped it would be or it doesn’t fit my hand. Those are things that I’ve always talked to members about that they develop that trust and they call and they go, “Man, I appreciate your opinion. What would you recommend I get?”

I’d say, “I recommend you get some opportunity on the range to go shoot some guns and find out which one you like.” If you really don’t know that person and have that kind of knowledge as to, “I know Phil wants this gun. This is something he is good with. He’s already shot it. He’s familiar with it,” the other thing you might think about is a gift card. That’s super simple enough, takes me completely out of the equation. You can go pick out whatever it is that you want.

Phillip: We’re talking about purchases of new firearms. What about passing on something? Your grandfather gave you that shotgun. You want to give it to your son. How do you do that? Again, those laws vary every single state because, in California, we have a whole– We can’t do anything normal. It’s just the way it is.

Rob: It’s not an issue for me to make that transfer in the state of Oklahoma. Again, we don’t have a state registry.

Phillip: In California, you can’t do that. Now, I think in 2012, maybe it’s a little later than that, long guns weren’t really registered. Now, they were registered, but they didn’t have a registry at the state level. How was a long gun registered? Well, in 1980, if you went in, bought a Remington 700 from Kmart because Kmart was around in 1980, and you paid your $249, well, you got this rifle, right? You filled out your 4473 form.

Well, if that firearm was found somewhere in the year 2000 and they said, “Whose gun is this?” and I say, “I don’t know,” well, there was a paper trail back from the manufacturer who said, “We sent it to Bob’s Wholesale. Bob’s wholesale sent it to Southern California wholesale. They sent it over to Kmart and Kmart sold it to 4473, the serial number, and they sold that to Bob Dutton.”

There’s a Bob Dutton that never bought anything. Here’s his address and so they knock on his door and said, “Hey, did you have this?” He’s like, “Well, yes, I did, but I gave it to” or “I sold it at,” and so there’s these other trails that happened, but his responsibility was there. They always had a registry for it. The 4473 form was never filed with the type you listed on it that I bought a rifle. I bought a long gun. It didn’t say what type on there.

Now, in California’s requirements, it has to have the make, model, serial number, caliber that they keep track of in California. It’s not just a long gun anymore. There’s always been a way if a weapon was found at a scene that they could trace it back to the last known owner, and then he’s got to answer some questions. You’re running around with a firearm with your serial number ground down, well–

Rob: Crime in itself.

Phillip: Right. That by itself will put you away.

Rob: Fortunately for us, as far as forensically in law enforcement, pretty much any piece affiliated with a firearm is something that is evident. It’s something we can use to piece that back together. Our CEO, Mike Darter, was a contractor for ATF and was a liaison with police departments, and helping them do knife testing. They can test the firearm itself. They can get information from a projectile. They can get information from the spent casing or a shotgun hole.

There’s tool marks that are going to be there from a firing pin or whether it’s from a mark on a casing from the extractor, removing a shell. There’s just so many things that you can piece together that way. You know what? Like I said, when I was working criminal intelligence, there were things that we could follow. Then there were guns that were used in homicides on the other side of the state.

Then gun disappears for six months or a year and then, all of a sudden, the same gun is being used in crimes locally in the metro area of Oklahoma City. That’s just unbelievable that those things related to that firearm can tie crime to crime to crime even though it may not be the same person because those guns in the criminal world pass hands relatively quickly, especially if it was a dirty gun and used for something.

Again, back to our gifting thing, there’s things that you think of and you go, “This guy’s of sound mind. He’s not a drug addict. He’s not doing these things.” Unbeknownst, there’s a victim protection order against him somewhere or a restraining order or something like that. A lot of times, those things also have things built in that basically prohibit that person from legally possessing a firearm. Just the simple fact of gifting something is really a very big deal. It’s something that you need to talk at great length about and figure out before you make that step.

Phillip: Gifting a firearm, and a lot of people say we don’t have to do this or do that, but you need to have, I believe– because I’ve sold firearms, but I always sell them or ship them through an FFL or I’ll use GunBroker or something like that. Again, that’s from an FFL to an FFL, right? It’s all reported stuff and they have to register it on the other end. I want a chain of custody that says, “Oh no, that went there and then he registered it.”

If there’s a problem with said, whatever it is, you need to talk to that person because here’s my chain of custody, stops, and it’s registered correctly on the other side. I’m not going to personally ship it to an FFL. I take it to an FFL. They log it in their books. They send it over. Again, I’m in California. We have to be very careful with everything we do. We only have 547 titles of all of our laws about firearms. Basically, is it legal? Just say no. [laughs] No. That’s how you survive in California. Can we? No.

Rob: On the other end of that, if you feel the need to gift me a firearm, I’ll let you know right up front that I’m okay with it. Not picky. Guns hold their value.

Phillip: What do we have here in California that you can’t get better out of the state? We have that roster that completely restricts what we can actually purchase here. If you want a Generation 3 Glock, I’ll get you one. You can get a Generation 5 for the same price right down the street. That’s not just silly, but that’s the way life is here.

Rob: What are your holiday plans?

Phillip: Kid’s coming out. My son is in med school and so he’ll be here for this time being for a couple of weeks. That’s really fun. We’re just going to enjoy a nice, simple Christmas. At least it is our intention to have a nice, simple Christmas. Then there’s always Nakatomi Plaza, so who knows?

Rob: Yippee-ki-yay.

[laughter]

Phillip: “Come out for the weekend. Have a good time,” she says. [laughs]

Rob: Any gifted firearms in the plans?

Phillip: Sorry?

Rob: I said any gifted firearms in the plans there?

Phillip: No, but last year, I did. My son’s in New York going to school. You cannot do a pistol in New York. It’s almost an impossibility. That’s one of the things that are in Supreme Court right now trying to get worked out. Shotgun, no problem. For him and his wife, we bought him online a 20-gauge semi-auto and had it shipped to his local city gun store. We went in together and I showed my idea that I’d sent it. He registered it and walked out with his beautiful 20-gauge semi-auto home defense firearm.

It can be done. Again, can you imagine if I was just trying to be good-intentioned, “Hey, you’re living in New York. It’s kind of a bad place. Here’s my Beretta,” and just ship it to him thinking, “Hey, he’s going to need it,” right? Well, now, that’s the Sullivan Act, right? It’s a one-year automatic– Just a nightmare. You just destroy somebody’s life, if you just do it right. I know a lot of people are like, “Oh, I’m not registering anything.”

It’s like, “Well, make your own choices.” Because I’m on the air and because I run my mouth for a living out here, I make sure that everything I own is in direct line with those 546 pages of laws. I have to. I don’t want anybody to knock on my door and give me a nasty surprise. Just, “No, we don’t play those games.” Anyway, that’s where we’re at with that. You have to be above board in the state because they’re looking for people to make examples of.

Rob: California is, without question, the most regulated, law-heavy state in the union regarding firearms ownership, but New York is really tough. New Jersey is really tough. Massachusetts is really tough. One that’s rushing to get up to that is Washington State and they’re moving that correction really, really fast. Illinois obviously is second only to California. Even still, like I said, we don’t have the state registry in Oklahoma. If I was going to gift a gun, there’s no paperwork or legal obligation to report the gift or anything else.

When I purchased that new, I’m the one that did the 4473. Just a word of advice just to keep you on the right side of the law. I would make sure that there is some type of documentation to any transfer of a firearm, whether it’s a registry state or not. It’s just one of those things that you were talking about. All of a sudden, there’s a knock on your door and it’s like, “Hey, you bought the Gen 3 Glock and we’d like to see your firearm.” “Well, I sold it.” “Who did you sell it to?” “I wish I got his name.”

Phillip: That’s something you don’t want to deal with. Matter of fact, I think it’s a federal form. I wrote the check department. Might have been a California form, but a Remington 700 short action. Somebody had a donor rifle. What I mean donor is when you make your own stuff or modify things, you want to put new barrels on, somehow in some trade, this guy ended up with a Remington 700 short action and I ended up with it.

It’s like, “Where’d it come from?” “I don’t know.” I took it down to the gun store and said, “Okay, how do I put this in my name?” There’s actually a form we fill out online for the Department of Justice for $19. You write down the serial number. You have this firearm. You send it into them, right? If it ever showed up that somehow along the line, I shouldn’t have had this gun, I’m reporting, “Hey, I’ve got this thing here.”

There’s nothing nefarious on my end on it. It’s a short action Remington 700. I also purchased from a firearm store, a Marlin 18– I think it was ’94. It was in 350 Marlin– It was a really cool lever-action gun. I’m like, “Wow, this is awesome.” Somebody brought it in. I bought it after the 30-day cooling-off period, which they have in California. If somebody has a private weapon that they bring to the gun store, it has to be there for 30 days before I can buy it, and then I have a 10-day wait.

All that time-lapses and it comes back. The gun’s been stolen. Let’s get it to the original owner. Well, this was actually a City of Downey Police Department that notified that this thing had been stolen. That hasn’t been picked up for two years now. They never notified the owner that his firearm was found. The police department doesn’t want to bother dealing with it. That was an oddity, but that’s a true story that still exists today.

Rob: That’s just crazy.

Phillip: If you ever had a Marlin and 350 stolen, I know where it is. [laughs]

Rob: Yes, that’s crazy. You know what? The other thing about this, just as an add-on, if you’re going to provide a firearm to somebody as a gift and somebody that’s new to firearms ownership, you might think about including-

Phillip: Gifted training, yes.

Rob: -a gifted training. You might include some means to secure it, make it safe. It’s a cable lock or a small biometric safe or anything. I talk about this all the time. There is such a responsibility and a burden to being a firearms owner. I love that I have that right to own. I love that I have the right to carry, but I also understand the weight of that responsibility that comes with that. That’s something that needs to be thought out and discussed before you’re just passing out a gun to somebody. There’s just so much more to it. Another part is be absolutely certain that the person is interested in a firearm.

Phillip: Who wouldn’t be? Come on.

Rob: None of my friends. [laughs] It’s a big deal. It’s a wonderful gift, but make sure you’ve covered your bases and then you’ve kept yourself safe is what I’m saying.

Phillip: We’re going to do rifle, pistol, shotgun. A pistol could be a revolver or a pistol or a semi-auto or a single-shot. I don’t care. Anything single handheld. If somebody listening wanted to gift you a shotgun, what would they get you?

[silence]

Rob: I’d like a really nice over and under trap gun. I’d be really good with that.

Phillip: Are we talking Perazzi, Kemen, Beretta?

Rob: Yes.

Phillip: If it’s going to be a gift, take the Perazzi, yes.

Rob: Let’s get there. I’d be all in for that.

Phillip: Over-under trap gun, okay. Rifle? Could be bolt action, carbine, your choice. Lever-action, whatever you want.

Rob: Oh man.

Phillip: Now, we’re going to forward this to your girlfriend. If you put down the model numbers, this could be helpful.

Rob: I would like to try out a 6.5, I think.

Phillip: A bolt-action 6.5. Any particular model?

Rob: No, I’m not necessarily picky. It shoots straight.

[crosstalk]

Rob: We can make that work.

Phillip: It’s a good choice. How about a handgun?

Rob: I pretty much have almost everything that I could want. I’d take a Smith & Wesson 500.

Phillip: [laughs] Have you shot one?

Rob: Absolutely, I have.

Phillip: Does it liquefy your chest?

Rob: There’s so much steel in that gun.

Phillip: It’s not that. I’m talking about the concussion off of that thing. When it goes off, it’s just “vroom,” especially you’ve got the muzzle brake on them and you got the flame coming out. It can loosen your fillings-

Rob: -and the funnels around you. I don’t know that I’d want to be standing beside you when you fire it. It’s like a big Beretta. If you’re directly behind that Beretta, there’s so much weight to that gun, that huge muzzle brake on it.

Phillip: You need to force– They make them now that instead of just having the muzzle brake that kills your team members when you’re lined up, they have them direct the force forward. That’s huge if you’re ever doing any kind of close-quarters shooting. I hate muzzle brakes right here. I don’t like that. That’s interesting. Model 500, that’s a big, big gun.

Rob: The cylinder on that is– You can take somebody out with the cylinder.

Phillip: It’s Smith & Wesson, right? The size of their frames go by the letters. A J-frame is their smallest. There’s K, there’s L, the 586, and the N-frames, which are the model 29s, Dirty Harry guns. I think it’s an X-frame for the 500. They just skipped. It’s not a P or a Q or R. They went to the X-frame for that 500. It also works as a four-wheel-drive jack if you’re out in the woods. You can wedge it right and just get the cylinder turned and actually lift your Jeep with that.

Rob: [laughs] The very first time I ever saw one of those fired, there was a buddy of mine that I actually used to shoot on the pistol team with. It was his son who was 14 at the time. I was so impressed watching that kid shoot. I was like, “I got to do this. Let me have that.”

Phillip: On our YouTube channel, there’s a picture of shooting the 500 and it’s from behind. What you see is a fire halo this big like 6 feet from the barrel just going down. [chuckles] There’s a little bit of force there.

Rob: It is impressive. Same thing, I was online over at the rifle range and a buddy of mine–

Phillip: When you’re shooting at 3 yards, you light your target on fire.

Rob: [laughs] Maybe shooting at 5 yards. It does put a burst out. We’re on the rifle range and a buddy of mine was shooting stuff with a Barrett. I was taking pictures and I was in the wrong spot. I found the only place that was actually a safe place for me to shoot as far as shooting pictures was-

Phillip: -behind him.

Rob: -right over the top of him. It was crazy how much– That was like overpressure from a bomb. It went to your core.

Phillip: You look at some of those pictures like in field pictures, let’s call them, where guys are shooting the .50s and they’re up on the cliffs and they’re shooting. You’re watching rocks go from the side. It’s blowing rocks out of the way. Yes, there’s a little bit of overpressure on that. That’s a heck of a cartridge. You don’t want a .50?

Rob: [laughs] I would not ever say no. I would never say no. I was just thinking of something I could actually use.

Phillip: Yes, I agree. At .50, they’re really neat, but you need a team to work those things.

Rob: Well, what are you going to stop, semi?

Phillip: I don’t know. Whatever you want. [laughs] You got a .50 caliber. What are you afraid of? Nothing.

Rob: Not anything.

Phillip: Very good choices, good choices. When you get your 500, get it in a 2-inch with a round butt.

Rob: Oh yes, and with one-handed.

Phillip: The [unintelligible 00:40:55] carry.

Rob: [laughs] I’ll need an extra heavy belt just to keep myself upright.

Phillip: Oh, boy.

Rob: It’s my carry.

Phillip: Just think about your speed-loaders, right? You can’t even put them in your pocket. The diameter of the speed-loader won’t fit in your front pocket. You’re going to have to have something on your belt for that.

Rob: That’s crazy. Can you imagine a pocket full of rounds? I used to carry them in a cargo pocket, just a whole bunch of extras so I didn’t have to keep walking back to my range box. Yes, that’s going to cause you to walk with a limp.

Phillip: [laughs] You’d be dragging one foot. That’s a big cartridge. A lot of guys love that thing. I shoot my .44. I really like the .44, but that’s as much as I want to go. It’s that concussive side blast. It’s like, I get a headache after about four shots. I’m like, “Okay, this is for somebody younger than me.”

Rob: That was like the guys that would carry the little Airweights and then they want to shoot a Magnum round of them. It’s just like you hate your wrist. You don’t even like yourself. That’s crazy.

Phillip: Yes, we shoot the carry 642. I really like that little gun, but it’s not what you’re going to run two boxes of ammo. You need to practice with it, but it’s not a fun gun to shoot.

Rob: Yes, when I was working at the training center, instead of carrying a semi-auto, I loved the way the rig looked. I loved the way that gun looked. I carried the 686. Big, nice gun, great shooting gun.

Phillip: The first pistol I ever bought was the 586 because they didn’t come out in stainless yet. That’s how old I am.

Rob: [laughs] It’s still one of my favorite guns to shoot and great action on it.

Phillip: They’re accurate and you can get a little bit on a Smith, especially an older Smith like that. You get some trigger work done on it where it’s just nice and smooth and just indexes perfectly. You can shoot double-action, but call your shot. That’s really helped for some accuracy.

Rob: Yes, for sure. We’ve got some good stuff coming up down the road.

Phillip: Got some good guests lined up. Yes, absolutely.

Rob: I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. Coming out on the other side of the Rittenhouse case, we have Andrew Branca back on again. He’s going to give a summary on that, his takeaways.

Phillip: I’m looking forward to that because of his great insights of what went on and all the hours he put in watching all that.

Rob: He’s so good at what he does. I felt going away from that. This might have been one of his best works. I felt like he was just on point the whole way through. He was doing daily posts from the trial for us. He did an amazing job. I’m really anxious. Always a pleasure to hear his legal side of things. That’ll be really good. I have a friend of mine that I’m working on to come on and do a piece with us on survival mindset.

She was caught in an ambush. A guy came at her with a– I think it was an AK and she was just sitting, riding in her patrol car when he started shooting at her. She was shot multiple times and able to get out of her car and engage him and run him off, but just amazing little lady. I trained her when she came through the academy.

Phillip: You did a good job there, boss.

Rob: She has always been a fighter and a warrior. It’s one of those things that you have to develop that mindset. You just have to know that, “I’m not going down. I’m fighting.” I think she’ll be fantastic for our listeners.

Phillip: I look forward to that.

Rob: What’s that?

Phillip: I look forward to that.

Rob: You’ll enjoy her. She’s absolutely wonderful. I’d also like to invite our viewers. If you’ve got anything that you think that I’d like to hear your take on some things, you can always email me direct. It’s rob@ccwsafe.com. We’re always interested in what our members want to hear. Trying to get them the content and training and exposure to the things that they’re interested in. That’s something we’re looking at for the turn of the year. I think we got a lot of good things coming, so we appreciate you guys tuning in. We always appreciate you joining us and giving us your input, what your thoughts are.

Phillip: Even enjoy the feedback.

Rob: Even enjoy the feedback. You can write in to support at ccwsafe.com. Those messages come straight through to us. We always value your opinion. It’s always an honor to get to visit with you guys. We wish you happy holidays and I look forward to seeing you the next time.

Phillip: All right. Merry Christmas, Rob.

Rob: Merry Christmas, sir. We’ll talk to you soon.

Phillip: God bless.

Rob: Stay safe. Bye-bye.